Hester Hill Schnipper

" Good morning this is exceptional women and I gave -- in October was breast cancer awareness month. But we'd like to take 1 more opportunity this morning November 1 to continue to shine a spotlight on breast cancer survivors. As well as the talented women surgeons the doctors and nurses the researchers in counselors who are all working so hard to ease the struggle for those with this disease. And working hard on finding a cure today's guest is both a survivor and an oncology social worker her name is Hester hill snipper. I met her for the first time in 2004 she was honored in 2005 with our exceptional women health -- award for her outstanding work at Beth Israel deaconess helping women dealing with cancer and for her own courage in surviving the disease. Well since we spoke about five years ago Hester was diagnosed with a second primary breast cancer. Totally am related the first she told me the second cancer Rosser required surgery and chemotherapy. And Hester told me this week that once again and she had to live cancer in a fishbowl she went about the daily business of caring for women with breast cancer. While being treated for the exact same disease she says as far as she knows right now she is healthy and well. And life is gonna -- And now from the 2004 archives. Exceptional women."

" Exceptional women are everywhere some make headlines others make things happen quietly each in their lives. And in the lives of the people they love exceptional women aren't heard defined -- your neighbors and your friends. And we want you to meet them good morning I'm gay Vernon here on magic one of six point seven."

" I guess this morning is -- hill she -- one of her colleagues at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center. Wrote to tell us all about her the letter said that the hospital had just held its eleventh annual celebration of life which is a day that set aside. For people who have been touched by cancer. And the letter went on to say that one of the most fascinating stories of all belong to the woman who started the event more than a decade ago that she had inspired so many. To not just fight cancer. But to beat it she herself was diagnosed with breast cancer and that experience further fueled her efforts to help women. Deal with the disease -- hill chipper is the chief oncology social worker. At Beth Israel deaconess she has published two books on the subject of breast cancer the latest one titled. After breast cancer common sense guide to life after treatment. Part of it's her story is published by bantam books she's also -- much sought after speaker she's a teacher a lecturer a wife and a mother. And that's how I would describe her but I asked tester which she would say about herself."

" Probably the first thing I would say about myself is how very lucky I am. Then I have been fortunate to find a spot in life where my personal life my professional life converged. That every day I go home thinking they would do something which is made some other woman's life a little more useful and I'm happy."

" it's not unusual to look at an accomplished professional woman's resume her bio and fine in one maybe even too quirky unusual items I do this all the time so different that jumps out -- makes me wanna say okay what's this so here's what I found -- A BA from the Tokyo branch of the University of Maryland did I read that current did reject reckon as she started to speak I -- that's what's really. -- saying well that's good news out of their hands and eyes on the Health --"

" Happened is that my first marriage wishes to a man who is a brand new West Point graduate and we spent their early years of our lives together traveling all over the world. I had only half finished college when we were married and I -- 42 courses wherever we were. And I spent the year that he was in Vietnam living in the pocono law which is part of Japan. With my parents my father was the last high commissioner of the -- UQ islands. And I lived with them and finish school and branch of the University of Maryland I've never been to College Park but I do have a degree. He received -- now that leads to a couple of questions or what was growing up like if your father had that kind of title at that point what did he do with the rest of his career and where did you -- elected to do growing up was wonderful and always lost in conversations with people who are trying to -- another -- other unhappy childhoods because I had just a great. Childhood my dad was a general in the army. Which happened that promotion happened when I was probably nine or ten so most of my memories are after that we had a couple of interest in places to live other than the pocono when. I lived in Saigon south Vietnam for three years is a child between the French war and the American war. And it was a wonderful place to be a little girl and a horse I rode every day and ten years subsequently the First Amendment to parents ICG just looks just like Saigon which of course insulted. All of the French people around me that site and was a beautiful city before. The war. The other interest in and it really terrific place I lived it was it was point when I was in high school which explains the first marriage to. A West Point graduate but not a bad place for sixteen year old girl to live and and what do you think you took away the lessons learned from your parents what culture in good stead today that came directly from your folks. This is gonna sound a little odd that there at West Point motto is duty honor country and I think what I learned is there are lots of ways to live that which don't have to do with being in the military. But the most important thing used to be of service in a way event is fitting for whom every you mark. That's practical way and sell. You come out oh with a college degree in social work. No college -- psychology and then later went to graduate school concession in social work and who when you're studying social work you know are you thinking hospital setting what your goals Michael's word to get a job ahead for which it would be paid something and very frankly and -- and -- social work and misses him -- when I think of the options and women have today when I was growing up. I had exactly one friend whose mother worked and she was a social worker so that was the thing that occurred to me is something that women can do my -- first placement and such were squeezed due a academic yearlong internship each of the two years. And the first year I was at Mass. General. And I was there because we had one car my husband was in nineteen my daughter was in the daycare center at MIT so what had to be someplace very near there was no other reason. But I have to be Mass. General but I discovered that I loved. The hospital -- loved the work and particularly liked working with people who had cancer. And kind of went from there so for some fourteen years the first fourteen years of your professional career you went to work to counsel breast cancer patient. What did you hope to accomplish everyday I guess I just hope to do something for somebody else would be useful and to learn something new for myself they -- the really great things about my job. Is and I buying enlarged work with women who -- just wish I admit and some other way I mean if there is a downside. Of social work was my own bias about it is that very often the wonderful work the people is doing it on is with people that she really -- not collected in a way. And my own. Choice of work would be to spend my time with people whom I can learn things from minor interest in and have much about them in their own lives to admire. And certainly we're in medical setting that's true mean cancer as we know uses. A non discriminatory illness it happens to everybody and I spend my days swift. Women who are living quietly heroic lives and that's always been true. And are you going to tell me then that you take away more. Every day than you actually -- of course it -- a cliche but of course that that's an amazing thing because I'm sure if I had 510100. Women who -- council through the years sitting here admit they'd say oh absolutely not. -- I hope they know better you know because IE and just blessed to spend my days with the women I do. Grab a cup of coffee you're listening to exceptional women radio portraits that will inspire you here on magic wanna six point seven thinking for. And my guest today is Hester he'll -- she is the chief oncology social worker at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center she is also the author of the highly talented book after breast cancer. A common sense guide to life after breast cancer it's published by bantam books Hester could you share with our listeners as you do in your book what exactly happened to you what steps you took. When you were diagnosed in 1993. It was in February. Seventh 1993 and I practically -- the minute and what the temperature went outside and I think that that moment for everybody. Defines how life was both before and after cold green. 44 YE he'd have regularly done breast self examine -- working the in the world of cancer of course -- get mammograms -- breast self exam my mother had had breast cancer. In her sixties to the fact that one's mother had a post menopausal breast cancer does very little to increase risks alone though. That was in my personal history wasn't a big red flag and wasn't particularly. Worried about it. Stretching in the morning not -- a breast exam just stretching. I did feel a lump in my impressed and instantly instantly. My brain my heart my gut and all reacted as one and I absolutely knew that this was different that this was not anything I ever felt before. And that it was -- So I think the public health message here which isn't quite which he asked me but is the reason women should do breast self exams. Is not necessarily because you know which you feel -- doing it but because if there's something different you recognize that it's new and different and women say that TU yes frequently we and I felt this in my breast I turn to my husband who was in medical oncologist and -- cool. You could you please feel is he felt it. His face changed but what he said was. It's probably not any thing let's wait a month he'll wait till after your next cycle -- and if it's still there and get it checked out. I knew better. And I'm also not a very patient person and and not good at waiting and driving into work that morning I of course not -- what is the point in waiting a month that this is nothing I would rather finance and immediately be reassured. And if it is something to worry about it's better to know that and get it taken Kara. So has been good news and bad news all along about my own cancer experience the bad news is no way too much. And for everything that's an I know the fifteen things they can go wrong and I've known women to whom each of those things happened so I have some terrible nightmare sort of newsreels in my hand. But the good news is I have friends. And contacts and I know how the system works and unlike many women -- have to struggle to figure out whom to like coal and who is the best person. I just called a friend who is -- breast surgeons who said come on over this afternoon. And who felt a lump I think she probably was worried at the time on the which she too said. Was let's just get a mammogram and see what it says but what will biopsy because knowing who you Warren everything you know you'll be too worried if we do nothing. Had a mammogram again and -- which like all the others was -- perfectly normal mammogram didn't show anything. Had a biopsy the next day which did show something so from that point -- from the biopsy did it just snowball. From that point on -- What it's easier because I worked where I get I was absolutely terrified I realist in the first instance that although I have had thought. That I knew all about what it was like to have breast cancer or have any cancer I in fact knew nothing about it. That I may have intellectually understood the process I had no clue about what a truly felt like for a woman or for the people who love her. But I did know what I had to do I knew whom I had to call and you what I had to say. And was not frightened of things like. Talk about how chemotherapy is the most terrifying part of the whole experience until they get started and then figure out it's not as bad as anticipated. I wasn't worried about side effects and was worried about what radiation would be like man was comfortable in that million and I knew people and it felt like home. But I was very frightened of the power of breast cancer."

" Good morning again I gave Vernon this is magic won a six point seven and you're listening to exceptional women and I've gone back into the archives to 2004. To an interview done with Hester -- snipper. A breast cancer survivor. And the chief of the oncology social work department at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center her specialty is working with breast cancer patients and their families. And since we spoke five years ago. Hester has survived a second primary breast cancer. Twelve years after the first she continues her work at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center she is a brand new grandmother. And told me just a few days ago that life is gonna Hester were you angry that you had spent so many years helping other women try to deal with breast cancer and then. You get the diagnosis. And it's -- do -- Twilight Zone read you the questioning yourself and and how you we're handling this."

" Uncertainly some of the internal conversations you know went in those directions and I will admit now that I have the safety of eleven years since those days. That I behave very badly I'm really rotten patient I probably behaved in the kind of ways says he. Other women behave their caregivers with think who is this crazy person human trying to take care of but I think that came from a couple of places that certainly came from my fear primarily. It came from my fury really that this had happened which is an angry that I hear about from women all the time. That those of us who have fought all along we've done the right things to take care of our associate exercise -- be -- get enough sleep you handle your stress. You -- a good person trying to be useful in this world and still calamity happens mean we know there are no guarantees and there's nothing that anybody can do. To prevent breast cancer or most other cancers from happening. Having it happen to me I was furious. And I didn't know -- to be furious act because it really is the states it's not me it's not any other individual or incidental thing. Which has gone wrong and being a jury will -- for whom manners were a big priority in my life if I. No I didn't know what to do with being angry may -- remember my mother came to help for a few days right after the surgery. And we were in the kitchen one night. Talking I don't remember about what I remember that I got furious probably she said some perfectly reasonable thing and because I was just so one engine because it's so easy to get manager mother. You know I -- gotten him and and I threw wine glass into the sink. Which was extremely satisfying is -- it shattered all over the -- but I knew would not be hurtful to anybody because -- class was contained in the rendered keeps saying. And looked around feeling better myself having to heed this glass and at the sink and my mother was standing with tears rolling down her cheeks and what she said was. Weird -- I go wrong. How could I have raised a daughter who could become so angry but as time rolled on of course as always happens as women move along in breast cancer treatment more people move along any kind of cancer treatment. A routine evolves in the united became steady -- because I had to become stand here when there's. A choice always seek if you can't choose you know what's gonna happen you can choose how you're going to react to it. I knew that I needed to keep working throughout my treatment. And I knew that I had to be you know behaved in professional while I was on the job but I had to behave reasonably well most of the time at home. And it got easier with time but -- your job is what you're you're trying to get through in the beginning you told your patience you're. Also a patient or not it -- it was mixed the best example of that at the time of my diagnosis I was facilitating to breast cancer support groups. Which met weekly. One of them was group in my private practice in the evening and we had not met one week because of the February vacation. And then I called the day before -- having the biopsy to cancel the meeting which was the night of the biopsy. And what was really interesting is only two women and maybe eight or nine in the group says are you okay. And to those two women I said I hope so but it was those two. Whom I felt the closest just of all the women in that particular group they were the ones like I wish -- been able to be friends with. And they somehow -- in my voice and got it. But when the group then resume which was two weeks later because it was than a snowstorm which sort of self canceled the groups of following weeks when we met again and again. Three weeks is to group in netted have been a couple of weeks since -- by announcing. And I chose not to say. Anything that rationalizations being that these were women who were paying me to take care of them and I knew that if I shared what happened to me. They would dent try to take care of me in that felt wrong. So it also was the -- it was scheduled to go for a total of eight weeks and had maybe two or three more sessions so we knew we could finish so sessions before my hair fell out from chemotherapy. So we finish I didn't say anything. Year or two later I ran into a woman who had been in that particular group of the grayish restore who told me that she'd known that she had heard from a friend for friend. That this has happened to me and she and then decided it couldn't possibly be true. Because how could I possibly sit there and continue to facilitate the group and not -- had it been true. And she then admitted that it wind she learned against some months later there really was true that she was furious with me and said that I had deprived her. In the other women in the group of trying to respond in the human caring authentic way. And she was right in my second group contrast is a group that still goes on and Beth Israel deaconess which is a weekly group for newly diagnosed women -- came when I knew I was gonna have to say something because era was sitting. Looking."

" Pretty much normally and the next week and it would be sitting there without much here. And so in that group for the first time my practice telling my patients what had happened to me. And there response really was a paradigm for what happened with all of the other telling says there was an explosion of feeling -- in several woman came over and hugged me most people burst into tears. And that was the beginning probably of Mayan healing. And the beginning of the lesson that the only way to manage this with plane being honest and open with not just my colleagues at work that the women. Who might take care and what about a home history your mother. Yes you have two daughters two dollars. How did that play -- how you handled things what where there's special concerns. I'm sure that would be helpful to some of our listeners. I think has been a mother is the most painful part of cancer you know for anybody. The -- that we may die prematurely and not live to raise our children safely to adulthood to use terror and and grief. That is really beyond words and it's where all of us worry about the most wind -- diagnosis comes down. My own daughters or eight years apart in age severe reactions in with the needed to hear was obviously very different. My older daughter was in college in Minnesota and so I called her to tell her. And the first thing she said was what does this mean for me. Which of course wears a completely genuine question both of her grandmothers who had breast cancer my own mother who had in her sixties and in time will. Her father's mother also in her sixties who had breast cancer and died of the disease so Catherine certainly knew. In her -- what could happen. So we talked she of course was very sad but being geographically distant. Been a very mature young woman you'll pulled it together and quickly -- how can I be helpful to UTU -- my younger daughter. Was. Eleventh. I think and living at home so she was the one who was feel forced through the fire on a day to day basis with us. We in my husband and I came home today's biopsy -- had not told her I was having a biopsy that we. Arrived home and it was probably 4 o'clock in the afternoon instead of the usual we have 6:30 in the evening news. And and -- he was with so there were several unusual things change she said wire you hear what's wrong. And I immediately just said you'll come sit down and something need to tell you. And because she had grown up with me and because of the work her stepfather does cancer is. In a weird way the normal dinner table conversation at our house yeah what did you do today involves and cancer discussion often. So of the vocabulary. Was familiar to her which is not common for an eleven year old fortunately. And she knew the questions to -- I told her that I had been diagnosed with breast cancer that -- And what I expected to treatment would be she of course immediately began to cry in her first question. Which I think is every child's first question but not every child feels able to a basket but Julius -- are you gonna die. And what I said to her which is what I tell all mothers -- should say when they get that question is no. Now did I know that for sure of course not it was still not that Fisher of course not. But I absolutely know that that's the right answer to give a young child nobody ever drops dead of breast cancer. And if god forbid it doesn't go well there's plenty of time in the future. Two share of the truth and the dying with in my then somewhat older child and there is no reason to dump the adult worries on. And an eleven or an eight or six year old child at home so I told her no. And our second question was then are you going to Lucia breath she didn't know that we're mastectomy -- that happens sometimes. And I can tell her no that I was gonna have a smaller surgeries and -- and then she said -- in the leisure hair and I said yes and Oprah she didn't like that. But like all children she also adapted to that part quite well."

" This week's exceptional woman is Hester -- snipper author lecturer teacher chief oncology social worker at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center. And breast cancer survivor. I'm gay Vernon and this is exceptional women on magic 106 point seven thanks so much for joining us on the Sunday morning. -- we have interviewed quite a few breast cancer survivors over the years here on exceptional women and not all. But a few have said even though it sounds outrageous. They would not have missed. This experience if given the choice a lot of reasons the love that they felt the support what they learned from the experience how they live their lives now I'm sure you've heard this from some breast cancer survivors how do you explain that feeling -- and would use."

" I would say that end I tell that to two most of my patients although I say to him. This sounds crazy when you're newly diagnosed and it is crazy when you're newly diagnosed but the truth is if it's a very big if if you're lucky. And if you stay well at some point in your life she will look back on this and there will be some things that just happens it would not have happened. Which have been blessings for you and I think they're all the things that you just mentioned. And probably the primary thing for me and maybe for most women. Is just appreciating and noticing life in a different way than we ever would otherwise -- of course is treated any of us can get hit by a bus at any moment but it's different. -- you have been told you have an illness that is potentially life threatening and may -- you. And not a day goes by I think any woman who's been through this isn't grateful to be here. To notice you're -- the sun itself the rose smells good I mean we really to stop to smell the flowers and we really do pull the car over the side of the road to watch the sunset and we really noticed. Our friends and people we love and life is better. -- it would have been pester your partner in life is an oncologist. How does that play into this I'm thinking there must be some good and some bad and -- this absolutely the band is we never get away from cancer. -- that it's our work lives and it's our home life and wouldn't it be nice if something else to talk about occasionally. Mean that's certainly better than it was when I was in the throes of treatment or in the most worried few years right after but it's always there -- good news is he gets it. He'd completely appreciates and understands what I've been through. And my experience he says has made him a better. Doctor I think he always was a wonderful doctor and knees the gentle and caring and fabulous man. But he knows different questions now to ask and he has learned to probe with specific questions about how many hours sleep -- need to get a night or you know have you been able to drive the car -- the -- you usually do are you able to keep up. We -- work life. And he also of course understands her husband her partner's. Position. Better any -- any says his heart is in theory in the room with the husband -- partner in a different way to attempt to October has been breast cancer awareness month for as long as exceptional women has been on the radio you're somebody -- on the inside track and you live with somebody -- on the inside -- Hester will we still ten or twenty years from now. Be dedicating our October's to this awareness I have a horrible feeling that fifty years sure now we may be dedicating our October's -- this awareness. -- absolutely have been great gains in breast cancer treatment when I began my work almost 25 years ago. There was literally one possible treatment for women with metastatic or advanced breast cancer and when that treatment stopped working it was nothing else to offer. They're now is a long long list of possible treatment so life for most women. Goes on much longer and with much more quality than it did twenty years ago. We don't have a cure though and we don't have prevention. And it's important for the long haul. What has been your most gratifying professional moment does one stand out yes although it's a repetitive moment we have an event and our medical center called celebration of life which grew out of national cancer survivors day it's a daylong event on and one of the first couple Sundays in June each year we now have more than a thousand people who gather every year we begin. Today I stand up in front of all these people and am asking everyone here who's ever heard the words. I'm sorry to tell you have cancer we you stand in hundreds of people. Stand and that moment every year is the most gratifying professional and personal moment that I have. And how do you celebrate life today great fooling. Not perfectly. We if there's so much thanks for being here IE in knowing and being very repetitive I just feel so blessed in so fortunate. To have the life for my hand and to have this opportunity. To help other women find your version of the best plan for them."

" And that's exceptional women from the 2004. Archives. And my thanks to Hester -- snipper a two time breast cancer survivor. And chief of the oncology social work department at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center. This week's exceptional woman I gave Vernon please join my partner candy EO Terry and the every Sunday morning at 738. For exceptional women radio portraits of women who will inspire you."